Wednesday Evening Coed / Summer 2008

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sixofdiamonds	Wednesday Evening Coed / Summer 2008	Lead	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 11640 (05/30/08 7:14 AM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Schedule now posted. Access the schedule from the main Softball America webpage or click here For the upcoming summer season, the Wednesday Coed league will move to an Eastern/Western Conference format. Two A division teams will compete in the Eastern Conference. Two A division teams will compete in the Western Conference. The remaining B division teams were similarly split. Each team will play within their conference for the regular season. All teams will play at both ball fields. The playoffs will consist of interleague play. The Eastern Conference finals will be held at the Quarry field while the Western Conference finals will be held at Hatfield. In the event each of the two finals consist of same conference teams, the match-up with the higher seeded team will default to their originally scheduled ball field. This setup is on a trial basis. The conferences can be adjusted from season to season to allow for, among other things, scheduling variety. Please proof all aspects of it as I threw it together on short notice. Eastern Conference Team 1: Chico's Bail Bonds Mgr. Brian Roth Team 2: Hackert Auto Body 648 Mary St., Warminster, PA 215-672-2330 www.barryhackertautobody.com Mgr. Dan McGlynn Team 3: The Butcher Mgr. Joe DeSousa Team 4: REMAX Centre Red Balls www.stevesaulino.com Mgr. Keith Keppley Team 5: Disabled List Mgr. Paul O'Connor Team 6: Cannoneers Sportsman Club Lansdale, PA 215-361-0154 Mgr. Tom Banes Team 7: Mixed Nutz Mgr. Curtis Hensman Western Conference Team 8: Tonelli's Pizza 222 Horsham Rd #611 Horsham, PA 19044 www.tonellispizza.com Mgr. Mike Gosciniak Team 9: Gavin's Tavern Horsham Rd. Horsham PA 215-540-0299 http://www.gavinsclowningaround.com Mgr. Mike McHale Team 10: 99 Restaurants www.99restaurants.com Mgr. Christen Flaherty Team 11: Outcasts Mgr. Shanna Lilly Team 12: Jamison Pub 2160 York Road Jamison, PA 18929 215-343-3357 Mgr. Dave Buonomo Team 13: Casey's Saloon and Eatery 210 S. Main St. Hatfield, PA 19440 www.caseyssaloon.com Mgr. Ray Cope Team 14: Focus Forward 515 Pennsylvania Avenue Suite 110 Fort Washington, PA http://www.focusfwd.com Mgr. Bob Garges Last Edited By: sixofdiamonds 05/30/08 5:32 PM. Edited 1 time.
therug10		#1	[-]
Double A Poster Posts: 57 (05/30/08 12:10 PM) Rookie Poster Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I know this topic has been discussed much over the last year, but I'm curious why the switch in formats from A & B leagues to two divisions? On paper it looks like there will be more one-sided games and the A teams have a pretty good chance of dominating their divisions. We have done inter-league play in the Fall and Spring. The A teams went 10-1-1 vs. the B teams last fall and 16-4 against the B in the spring. The A teams are in the A because they are more talented. Having them play more games against B teams and play at Hatfield probably will produce more lopsided games. It seemed to me that both divisions were competitive this past spring. The playoff races were fairly tight and I'm surprised by the switch in formats. One other thing, it has been noted by a couple of people how good the A final was this past Wed. Under the new schedule Remax and 99 won't face each other in the summer. Is that what people were searching for when the subject of the Wed. schedule came up last year?
sixofdiamonds		#2	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 11640 (05/30/08 1:52 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I know this topic has been discussed much over the last year, but I'm curious why the switch in formats from A & B leagues to two divisions? Because you didn't like the interleague schedule I posted when the Cannoneers decided to stay in the B. Remember? Each conference in Wednesday Coed is now no different than Monday or Friday Coed and they have survived very nicely over the years. Last Edited By: sixofdiamonds 06/01/08 3:50 PM. Edited 1 times.
NIPS03		#3	[-]
Rookie Poster Posts: 42 (05/30/08 2:42 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The format works for me as I play Sundays and there hase never been a problem.
mr zero 69		#4	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 606 (05/30/08 3:07 PM) Major League Poster Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The format works for me as I play Sundays and there hase never been a problem. That's because you're usually still passed out from Sat. night.
therug10		#5	[-]
Double A Poster Posts: 57 (05/30/08 3:19 PM) Rookie Poster Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Many people in the league have acknowledged the disparity in talent between the A and B leagues. Going to the current format will only increase the number of games that aren't very close. We'll see after the season is complete but there had to be a better way to do the current schedule.
sixofdiamonds		#6	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 11640 (05/30/08 5:32 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The disparity of talent between Hackert Auto Body, PUNKS, Tonelli's Pizza, Focus Forward and the Wednesday Coed B League Big 6 of Cannoneers, Casey's, Gavin's, Jamison, Disabled List, Chico's is no different than the disparity of talent between the B League Big 6 and the A League 4. It's OK for the B League Big 6 to beat up on Hackert, PUNKS, Tonelli's, and Focus Forward, but God forbid they should have it happen to them. And the funny thing about it... I've never heard a complaining word from either of those 4 teams, regardless of how bad they got beat or the fact that they rarely make the playoffs. It is their choice to play as they are. It is their choice to try and get better. At the 11th hour, the PUNKS have pulled out of the Wednesday Coed league. Taking the PUNKS place in the Eastern Conference will be Curtis Hensman and his Mixed Nutz. The schedule has been adjusted accordingly. Last Edited By: sixofdiamonds 06/01/08 6:24 PM. Edited 2 times.
sixofdiamonds		#7	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 11640 (05/30/08 6:00 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Having an A and B division was a luxury afforded us by having 2 fields and 14 teams on Wednesdays. Unfortunately, finding a happy middle ground among the divisions was just not possible. Once the finger pointing started about who should move up, the beginning of the end of the A and B divisions was near. The most recent whining and flood of emails about the interleague schedule I posted for the summer was the nail in the A/B coffin. So now we try it straight up and see what shakes out. 2 similar divisions. No A. No B. And yes, it is a definite possibility that both Wednesday Coed champs can come out of the same division. You will find a disparity of talent in each and every sport, each and every season. The games are played on the field and not on paper. Sports history abounds with winners that were given no shot at all. The big difference is the winners didn't listen to the handicappers and mail in their effort. They stepped up, pulled together and played their hearts out as a team. Should the PGA ban Tiger Woods from playing because the disparity of talent between he and all the others is so great? Should the NY Giants have just mailed it in because the vaunted New England Patiorts were so much better? Should I have banned Christen's 99 Restaurant from the Wednesday Coed league this year because they won 5 of the last 6 championships? Doing so would have robbed each and every member of the RE/MAX Red Balls of one of their most gratifying championship wins ever. Don't quit on me and the rest of the league before the gate even opens. Let's just play it out as hard as we can and see what gives. We can revisit this again in the fall.
Purplemonkey		#8	[-]
Double A Poster Posts: 133 (05/30/08 6:39 PM) League Journalist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	sixofdiamonds wrote: Should the NY Giants have just mailed it in because the vaunted New England Patiorts were so much better? How did I know this example would somehow find it's way in?
sixofdiamonds		#9	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 11640 (06/01/08 9:54 AM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	To those of the Wednesday Coed league that just don't get it, and probably never will, I'll explain what precipitated the move to the new schedule format one more time. With 4 teams in the A and 10 teams in the B, the A division wasn't happy. From a scheduling standpoint, I can understand why. Some A division members attacked B division teams for not taking the step up. Interleague play was introduced making the A division happy, but the B division became miserable. Even though the B division had the opportunity to win a B division title, they whined, "It's not fair", because they had to play some games vs. A division teams in the regular season. This I cannot understand because a B title was still available to every B team. It might have been down a slightly bumpier road, but the bottom line was a B team would battle a B team for the B title. Unhappiness abounds no matter how I set it up, so the only thing left for me to do is go by the book. The Wednesday Coed league will now be setup and run exactly as the other coed leagues save for the interleague style playoffs which are on a trial basis for the summer. On a side note; one team had mentioned they would move up in the summer, but for personal reasons decided to hold off until maybe the fall season. I give them the credit for at least considering the move upward. Teams change from season to season. Whatever their issues happened to be I chose to respect them. I don't know what else you Wednesday Coed people want from me.
Joestheman		#10	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 865 (06/01/08 11:18 AM) League Scorekeeper Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The Wednesday Summer schedule is done. In exchange for my league fees, I've been given 8 games, more depending on how my team finishes. I'm fine with that. You're right, Monday and Friday Coed nights seem to be doing just fine and have been for a long time. There are also no problems on Sunday, coed and men's, and Thursday men's. That tells me divisional play can work. I'm going to take a different angle here. Some years back, the league decided there was too much stacking going on. The best players seemed to wind up on the same team on any given coed night, leaving the rest of the field in the dust. The Eddie/Allstar rule was born. Results were instant. The rule never had to be tweaked and is still in place today. That rule is completely objective, based solely on a player's production. If you're in the top 80 (or whatever the cut off is) in offensive production, you're an allstar. If you're 81st or lower, you're not. Please tell me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge, no one has ever been asked if they want to be an all star or not. If your numbers say you are, end of story. From the conversations I've had with people on this topic, the thing that frustrates many is, why wouldn't team division placement be done the same way? Dominate B, move to A. Suck wind in A, move to B. My pro example is this; have the Jets notified the NFL office stating they no longer want to play in the AFC East because the Patriots are too good? If they allowed that, where would the Eagles play? (had to throw that in) It's been explained repeatedly how no team will be forced to play in a division they don't want to be in, and that's the sticking point. Don't hate me.
sixofdiamonds		#11	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 11640 (06/01/08 2:57 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	From the conversations I've had with people on this topic, the thing that frustrates many is, why wouldn't team division placement be done the same way? Dominate B, move to A. Suck wind in A, move to B. Here's why... Team rosters change from season to season. The team that dominated B in the spring could lose 2 or 3 good players for the summer. Force them to the A and now I have a weak B team fighting to survive in the A. By the same token, a team hobbles through the season in the spring A division because a few of their good players were either hurt or couldn't play in the spring. Now their players are healed and they've added a Gardner and/or Hackett to the squad for the summer. Force them into the B becasue of their horrid spring season and I have a nightmare on my hands. To take it one step further, a team repeatedly wins in the B division and I force them to the A. 4 of their players are of the mindset that they would rather do something better for the summer than throw away $70.00 getting pounded in the A division each week. Now I've got a wounded B team floundering around in the A waters. I don't hate you, Joe. Of all that have commented to me about this issue, you bring the most level-headedness to the table. I do think, however, you're being somewhat naive here. I also think you're being a little bit selfish for expecting me to regulate each and every team for each and every season. Sorry, but that just ain't gonna happen. The league has enough on its plate. As it is now I don't have much of a life beyond SBA. The all-star restricted list works because it involves individuals, not teams. And, the team always has the option of playing with more than 4 all-stars as long as they abide by the all-star/eddie rules. For you, or anyone for that matter, to expect me to force teams to compete where they may not want to, or even be capable of, is unfair to the team(s) AND the league. The examples I gave above are not the product of a vivid imagination. They are actual happenings that occurred during the 1st year of A/B play. Winding Brook Farm, Thursday Men's and Protech Roofing, Wednesday Coed were involved in 2 of the 3 examples. I forget the team involved in the other example. The other A/B divisions are working because they don't have a lot of teams that are content being the big fish in the little pond. Last year, Sunday Men's Ferraro's Computers and Rolling Hills moved from B to A. Thursday Men's Horsham Inn waited patiently for 3 season before they had the opportunity to move to the A. Just today, the B division Diamond Dogs asked me if they can move up to the Sunday Men's A in the fall. If and when the other divisions become as lopsided as Wednesday Coed, we'll go with a similar schedule. A and B are working elsewhere because the teams themselves are making it work. Every team in Wednesday Coed now has the same choice as every team in all the other leagues - get better or not care so much about losing 25-2 every so often and finishing 1-7. It is, as it should be, a team choice. This is my last post on a subject that has been beaten to death and I'm just plain tired of thinking about. It was good while it lasted. Certain disgruntled B teams, and they know exactly who they are, have nobody to blame but themselves. I truly believed the interleague play was a great compromise. Shows you how much I know.
sixofdiamonds		#12	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 11640 (06/01/08 3:19 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	OK, so I lied about not posting again on this subject. ------------------------------------- From: nikopup9.softballamerica To:sixofdiamonds Sent:June 1, 2008, 11:13 am The person asking for access is : nikopup9.softballamerica, you can contact them by sending a private message. They have left you this message: What a joke Wednesday night will become. I hope you know that the championship will come down to 99 Restaurants and either Remax or the Butcher. As a player for a B division team the difference in talent that i see between A and B divisions to too great. we had a great spring where 90% of the games were hard fought and interesting to be a part of. Do you really think it will be fun for some of the lower teams in the B division to play Remax or 99?? I don't see the problem with the old format....the A teams play each other twice and then to even out the schedules they should play the top teams from the B, but still keep the championships separate. At least it gives us something to play for in the B. With this new setup i see no light at the end of the tunnel and feel like i'll be throwing money in the toilet. This is the reason i will not be playing on wednesday nights this season. You'll see how it will turn out and hey good luck to the 2 A teams in the finals. I have very little respect for people that post or email anonymously. I have even less respect for people that do so when they don't have all the facts. For your information nikopup9, I posted an interleague schedule for the summer very similar to the one we played in the spring and within 2 hours there were 5 posts on the board and 4 emails in my inbox from managers about how unhappy people are and how unfair it is. If you have issues with the new format, take it up with your manager. Odds are he/she is the one that caused this debacle in the first place. Now I'm done with it. Last Edited By: sixofdiamonds 06/01/08 3:22 PM. Edited 2 times.
sixofdiamonds		#13	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 11640 (06/01/08 3:42 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Listen, if anyone else wants to bail - individual, team, or otherwise - all I ask is you let me know now. If we went down to 6 teams, one division and no crybabies, I would be one happy man. I could have a new schedule redone and posted in 2 hours. The league does not pay me enough to put up with this kind of garbage and put up with it I will not. Those interested in bailing out, please email the league office. Any league fee payment will be promptly refunded. New teams interested in competing in the Wednesday Coed league for the summer and fall, please email the league office. Thank you.
therug10		#14	[-]
Double A Poster Posts: 57 (06/01/08 5:21 PM) Rookie Poster Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The question I asked when the original summer schedule was posted referred to what I had been told about there being 5 teams in the A in the summer. I sent a two sentence post asking why that changed. I can't speak about the other messages you received. I happen to think interleague play is 10 times better than the divisional format for the reasons stated earlier. I think it was a good challenge to try and play the A, but the results were as expected (A was rather dominant). I'm fairly certain that the majority of the B teams would prefer interleague play to the current format because at least we had a chance at a B title if we made the playoffs. Now the chance of a title for the B teams is greatly diminished. One question I have about the subject is, Who benefits from the current schedule/format???? Not the B teams, our chances at winning a title this summer are reduced. Does the A benefit?? Now they have a variety of teams to play, but many of them games will be less competitive. Some of the A teams will not get to play traditional rivals. Also, I can't think many A players are excited about going to Hatfield. We're going to see how things go this summer, but I hope things change again in the fall. It's a shame that people are going to bail based on the way things are setup, because the spring was very competitive for both leagues.
sixofdiamonds		#15	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 11640 (06/01/08 5:32 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The question I have about the subject is, Who benefits from the current schedule/format???? Nobody benefits. But at least I know in my heart I did everything in my power to make it work. When the malcontents wouldn't let it work, I took it out of my hands and went by the scheduling book. I happen to think interleague play is 10 times better than the divisional format for the reasons stated earlier. I think it was a good challenge to try and play the A, but the results were as expected (A was rather dominant). I'm fairly certain that the majority of the B teams would prefer interleague play to the current format because at least we had a chance at a B title if we made the playoffs. Now the chance of a title for the B teams is greatly diminished. Now you think it's a good challenge? That's certainly not the impression you left me with time and time again. Last Edited By: sixofdiamonds 06/01/08 6:38 PM. Edited 1 times.
sixofdiamonds		#16	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 11640 (06/01/08 6:26 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Truth be told, running this league has taken its toll on me over the years - probably more so from a patience standpoint than anything else. I only wish I had a league like this when I played. As a matter of fact, I did from 1996 to 1998 when a fellow by the name of Joe Watson ran Softball America. It was the most fun I had in softball in almost 35 years of playing. I just can't understand all the complaining all the time over nothing more than minutia. I just don't understand it and I've lost all patience for it. Say what you will. Think what you will. I put my heart and soul into this league every blessed day of the year. I probably take it way more seriously than I should. Can't help it, though. That's who I am and that's how I roll. Because I care so much is the reason things run the way they do. It's the reason people don't leave once they're in and can't wait to get in when they're not. When people are unhappy, I try and make it right. Yes, I do take it personally - probably to a fault. This Wednesday Coed divisional garbage is just so RIDICULOUS. I've tried everything to make the league happy. For the first time since I took over the league I failed to make that happen. This is the reason I pulled the plug on the A/B divisions. Maybe this will purge the league of the malcontents and we can start over with teams that can co-exist in A and B divisions.
MixedNutz31	wooow	#17	[-]
Rookie Poster Posts: 23 (06/01/08 6:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It's so hard to find a league this organized, this many good people, great players, and the fact that people can't man up and just play the game, come on, it's a game, yeah some teams are better, go after them, don't let them walk all over you, i've been here for a few years now and i've seen, #1 seeds get beat over and over again in playoffs, just happen to us for sunday co-ed, just play the game the rest will take care of itself...we all would be hard pressed to find a league this great and this well organized anywhere in the area, believe me i've tried before i got here....thanks 6 for doing what you do and how you roll!!! lol
PO Queen33		#18	[-]
Major League Poster Posts: 797 (06/01/08 6:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Les, I being manager of an A team and member of this league for over a decade; I appreciate the effort you put into this league. You put our heart and soul into it.. You listen to what people say and make decisions. For those that think otherwise well I will keep it clean but take a step back and look at the big picture. I give HUGE props to Shanna and the Outcasts… taking a team, nervous as hell, and making the playoffs on their first A outing… proud of you BUDDY!!! I understand B teams don't want to play A… Trust me it is vice versa. No one wants any part of a blow out game. It is boring… even when you get a hit you aren't proud of it. You are afraid if you hit it at someone you will hurt them… What is Les supposed to do? Honestly? What happened to back in the day where you put a new team in with the thirst of taking out the top team? When did we take the back seat and put it on cruise control? I am not saying win at all cost by any means or dump half your team... but where did this self defeating attitude come from? I have never taken the field, even when we had the all girls team on a coed night, thinking we were going to lose... When you walk on the field already defeated then you have already lost no matter the outcome… Any given day any team can win.... It's a shame.. and it sucks... but we have some choices... we decide if we are going to have fun or not and make Wednesday coed a great night to play ball... There is a new season upon us... we can make the best of it and see how this all plays out... Knowing Les if it doesn't work out so well he will make changes come the fall.... Again, Les, Thank you for trying to make SBA the best it can be… Your efforts are greatly appreciated… even if we do give you a hard time… You can't please everyone... and you know this... but year after year you still try... kudos bossman.... Last Edited By: PO Queen33 06/01/08 6:58 PM. Edited 4 times.
MixedNutz31	yep	#19	[-]
Rookie Poster Posts: 23 (06/01/08 7:35 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hey i don't know about everyone else, but i love the upset...nothing better then that...
guest		#20	[-]
Rookie Poster Posts: 5 (06/02/08 6:50 AM) Rookie Poster Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hey Les, I know you said you were done posting on this particular topic of Wednesday night but I would appreciate it if you would please post my message in regards to the commentary and complaints. When we started playing Wednesday nights (i think in 2000) the league was very different. There was one division of 8 teams and we each played each other once. The team that I put in got beat EVERY week. And believe me they were BLOWOUTS. But we stuck with it. We continued to build our team each and every season even if it meant just adding a player or 2, losing a player, adding a player and so on. But we stuck with it and fought to take out the number one team. And guess what...we eventually did it. We ended up winning a few championships, moving our team to Sundays, and winning many more. Softball is a competitive sport. Softball America is one of the most organized league around. (People who have long since moved away and joined other leagues STILL miss softball america.) If you want to play in the league you need to roll with the flow. If not, don't play. No one else would tolerate this amount of complaints and WHINING. To the B teams...take it from someone who has been there....ask around, check out the free agent wire....take the time to build a team that can take out the "Number 1 A Team." It happens all the time! Thanks Les! Jess (Jess Marsh)

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Wednesday Evening Coed / Summer 2008

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